Slavery and Apaches
Davey, you are being far too serious and sensible, whats the matter with you?
Narr Gab, I aint got a headache, Im as obnoxious sober as drunk!!!I think sometimes tho my soldiers black sick humour and attitudes to the vissisitudes of life gets the better of me eh.Even facing death my tounge is firmly in cheek with a sly mischief in my eye, Id be taking the proverbial urine right up to the end and beyond see and laughing all the way.Heres hoping the devil wont find out Im gone till Im up there, but hey, I dont think he'd want me. He's too egotistical and Id be too much competition for him down there!!!!! HA
great i just got some avgas to throw on the fire , it the anglo saxons , ie the people from europe should be taken to task how about the spanish people , no i dont mean the latinos i mean the people from spain , didnt they put the whole continent into bondage ? should they stand up and pay first, after all, they discoverd the continent and aftyer three hundred years they are still third world , the american indians enjoy a far higher standard of living
If you've got 100 bucks to spare mate...bung it in our widget fund. I guarantee it will all go where its needed. On the technical issue...I have looked at some embeddable alternatives, the problem being that they would all require separate logins. I'd be happy to run one of them as an experiment if you think its really warranted?
i,v been meaning to say somthing about the mails on here some are out of context and its hard to follow who said what first , and you cant realy follow whats beeing said in context , that being said my views on nations that lost in the human struggle , victors write history losers are just that , i did not lose my heart at wounded knee or the death camps in europe in the forties , and i,m not starving to death or involved in tribal warfare in modern africa , in fact im part of the human race that seems to be progressing , for good or bad and i wont see the end of this progression , dont worry about things that you have no control over , if i sent a $100 to the un do you think that one penny would go to where its needed ?
Not at all, I don't see how a box would be effective, a machete would do so much more, but that is charming coming from a resident of a country/island who's ancestors killed off all the large indigenous mammals hundreds of years ago. 
Tomorrow you'll be sober, with a headache, and sorry you did this, haha!I'm not in disagreement with your point - accepting the role of "victim" is dangerous because it makes you a victim. I agree that "compensatory" actions and behaviours are undesirable because (1) how can you POSSIBLY "compensate" for something so horrible as the Holocaust or the attempted genocide of the native populations of the western hemisphere or Australia; and (2) how can the descendants of the oppressor "compensate" the descendants of the oppressed?I don't feel that it's that simple, though, I think it's very complicated and there's no "one-size-fits-all."If you're an African-American, should you be paid reparations for our country's history of slavery? What if you were a surviving slave, still living - should you be compensated for the life you lost and the work you did by the people who enslaved you and got the fruit of your labor? It seems simple to me that you should. What if you were that person's child, grandchild, great-grandchild? That seems simple to me, too, they would have gotten the fruit of your labor and you could estimate or measure injury to succeeding generations. What if you can't prove that your ancestors were slaves? What if some of your ancestors were slaves and some were plantation owners who kept slaves? Not so simple.If you're Native American, that's very complicated and it varies from tribe to tribe. In some cases, tribes receive monies from the US Government which were negotiated in a treaty - that seems simple to me, it's a contract. The US Government is supposed to pay other tribes for taking natural resources from their lands and that also seems simple to me, you pay for something you take but in some, many, cases the US government either hasn't made those payments as agreed or has made them into a fund the Bureau of Indian Affairs was supposed to oversee and then took them out to pay for something else. I'm sure there are other types of payments and I just don't what they are.So, generalities aside, do you think a man or woman should keep their word when they give it? Should a country? Should we uphold and abide by treaties that we make or are they "just a scrap of paper"? Do governments have ethical precepts or codes they should abide by or should they just do whatever whoever happens to be in power wants to do?And the reptile show was great, he brought a female king cobra, bunches of other snakes and lizards and I got to be the "helper" with the albinoa constrictor, (2 meters long) and hold the tail end while he held the head end so that the kids could come and pet it. She was gorgeous and soft and smooth and curled her tail around my hand because all the people made her nervous.
Tomorrow you'll be sober, with a headache, and sorry you did this, haha!I'm not in disagreement with your point - accepting the role of "victim" is dangerous because it makes you a victim. I agree that "compensatory" actions and behaviours are undesirable because (1) how can you POSSIBLY "compensate" for something so horrible as the Holocaust or the attempted genocide of the native populations of the western hemisphere or Australia; and (2) how can the descendants of the oppressor "compensate" the descendants of the oppressed?I don't feel that it's that simple, though, I think it's very complicated and there's no "one-size-fits-all."If you're an African-American, should you be paid reparations for our country's history of slavery? What if you were a surviving slave, still living - should you be compensated for the life you lost and the work you did by the people who enslaved you and got the fruit of your labor? It seems simple to me that you should. What if you were that person's child, grandchild, great-grandchild? That seems simple to me, too, they would have gotten the fruit of your labor and you could estimate or measure injury to succeeding generations. What if you can't prove that your ancestors were slaves? What if some of your ancestors were slaves and some were plantation owners who kept slaves? Not so simple.If you're Native American, that's very complicated and it varies from tribe to tribe. In some cases, tribes receive monies from the US Government which were negotiated in a treaty - that seems simple to me, it's a contract. The US Government is supposed to pay other tribes for taking natural resources from their lands and that also seems simple to me, you pay for something you take but in some, many, cases the US government either hasn't made those payments as agreed or has made them into a fund the Bureau of Indian Affairs was supposed to oversee and then took them out to pay for something else. I'm sure there are other types of payments and I just don't what they are.So, generalities aside, do you think a man or woman should keep their word when they give it? Should a country? Should we uphold and abide by treaties that we make or are they "just a scrap of paper"? Do governments have ethical precepts or codes they should abide by or should they just do whatever whoever happens to be in power wants to do?And the reptile show was great, he brought a female king cobra, bunches of other snakes and lizards and I got to be the "helper" with the albinoa constrictor, (2 meters long) and hold the tail end while he held the head end so that the kids could come and pet it. She was gorgeous and soft and smooth and curled her tail around my hand because all the people made her nervous.
Reptile show, fantastic.Hey, you are great, a really decent response to a crazy Welsh rant, no wonder you can live with Shaw without trying to kill him!No, but seriously (I love starts like that, so cheesy) ye ye I know all that, its terrible bla bla, weep weep, sooo wrong, but see I personally believe in fighting back and not whinging about past cruelty and injustice.THE MARK OF TRUE DEFEAT IN A CULTURE IS THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE VICTORS EVENTUAL REMORSE.AND EVEN WORSE STILL THE ACCEPTANCE OF COMPENSATORY ACTIONS AND BEHAVIOURSF*** em, I wouldnt want an apology from the b******sNow then, thats put you back in your fluffy save the badger box hasent it.Haha.
You don't think there should be public acknowledgement of things like this? That we shouldn't look at it and discuss it and acknowledge that it was horrible and shouldn't have happened? Or is it something else about it that you mean?Sorry, I'll pick Native Americans for my example to discuss. I don't feel that I PERSONALLY should feel personally guilty and responsible for the Indian Wars (as an example, although I had an ancestor who I think was in charge of Fort Cheyenne for a while during this) but I feel that as a society we need to acknowledge that our country was partially built on attempted genocide of the people that were here before us and they're still here and how do we all live together?I think you can make some comparisons to the Welsh in Wales and Native Americans in the US but what if the English had killed most of your ancestors and driven the rest onto reservations? What if today it were almost impossible for you to get a job, people outside your "reservation" expected you to be a stupid drunk and lifted their eyebrows in surprise and treated you like a miracle if you were literate or dressed in modern clothes instead of covered with blue clay - what if they actually expected you to be like that and were surprised and disappointed that you weren't? What if the English today treated you and your relatives, friends and neighbors like animals, as though it were ok to rape, assault, cheat and kill you? What if they "let" Wales have the Senedd and then it never had the power to do anything but plan cultural festivals? I know that England has in the past raided Wales for coal and I think today takes water from Wales? What if no one Welsh had any say in this and was never paid for it? What if the British government let English businesses come in and rip you off or take whatever they wanted and then just never did a thing about it and ignored your protests? What if your grandparents (and most of the town they lived in) died from poisoned food given them by the English government?(and now I have to sneak off to a reptile show at the library with my kids - hahaha! But I could say a lot on this topic - African slavery next, a very complicated subject)
Now heres another one, as Im in a taboo shattering mood tonight, Im going for it!My mate Dee, love him God bless him, Nigerian dude, befriendid him in Siera Leone in 99, lives in Manchester now just up the 55 and the M56, so we get together to drink lots of beer regularly, but he just wont accept it that the slave trade was tribal driven, ok, money was the incentive provided by the white man, but for nearly all black slaves who found themselves in America the first set of chains were clamped on them by another black man from a victorious tribe.Then the prickly topic of the treatment of the Native Americans. Well, despicable as it was it wasnt the first time in history its happened and it wont be the last either probably if I know humans as I do.As for Germans, ye they were party to the Holocaust, they knew, they buried their heads in sand. Im not Jewish, but if I was I wouldnt expect grovelling apologism, in fact Id despise it with the contempt it deserved, worse than gloating about it, in fact Id find that more acceptable. Japs, treatment of POWs, my uncle suffered 3 years of it, he hates them but to be fair to the Japanese, they rarely apologise for their course in human history and why the hell should they. They belonged to a strong culture that did not beleive in surrender and considered those that did as weak sub human.If some Englishman started apologising to me about the military occupation and economic exploitation of my country, or even further back, the taking of old Albion in the Dark Ages, I swear Id hit him.Id probably hit him anyway, cos he's English.Haha!!!
updated by @gareth-williams: 12/04/15 03:57:45PM
updated by @gareth-williams: 12/04/15 03:57:45PM
