GAYNOR DIOLCH FOR THE PHOTO. AMONG THE CHOCTAWS THERE IS AN ONION CLAN CALLED HATON FALAYA IKSA AND IS PART OF THE TRIBAL DIVISION KNOWN AS THE AHE VPAT OR POTATO EATERS AS THEY WERE PRINCIPALLY VEGETARIANS AND AGRONOMISTS. BY THE WAY WHAT IS YOUR OPINION THAT LLUNDAIN ON THE TEMYS FROM THE BRUT Y BRENHINEDD MAY REFER TO LUDLOW ON THE TEME RATHER THAN LONDON ON THE THAMES?

NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD

Found it! It's amazing to see that the custom still lives!

http://americymru.net/photo/johnnyonions?context=user#.UU8dPfHzsiA

According to our family lore, the custom of buying onions from the Britons served two purposes: 1) it helped our "cousins" in Brittany, and 2) it avoided the royaltariff.

Harold, if you look at my page (photos) you'll see a picture called Johnny Onions taken in Carmarthen although, unfortunately, the chap had obviously gone for a coffee break so it was only his bike covered in onions. We also have them up here in Hampstead and I've bought garlic from them.

That's amazing!

Harold, we still have "Johnny Onions" coming over from Brittany to sell garlic and onions on their bicycles. They even wear berets.

My great, great grandmother was born a British Subject in Nantes, France along with her younger brother while their parents were stationed there. Her father was sent by Victoria Iron Works to help establish a foundry in France. She spoke Welsh, French and English fluently. She said that the Britons in France and the Welsh could communicate with each other in their native languages with some but not insurmountable difficulty. In fact, the Britons (from Brittany in France) sold onions door to door in Wales when their ships were in port and they did so apparently using their native Gaelic dialect.

Thank you both for all this information - it's fascinating.

I believe that my husband and I apparently descend through the Deceangli or Teigengl tribe although we may have some Ordovices intrusions.

That is great information, diolch for sharing this with me. However, there is a difference as I understand between the P-Gaelic which comprises the Welsh, Cornish and Breton French and possibly the Channel Islands and the Q-Gaelic which comprises the Irish, Scottish and Manx. The P-Gaelic may in fact be related to the Basque and possibly Pictish, however, there is currently not enough information regarding the pictish language to determine this. However, P-Gaelic although currently classified as a Gaelic language may be a language isolate like Basque and possibly not Indo-european; there appears to be some controversy on this issue. Indeed the Silures would be constituted as a tribal group from my perspective as there were principally six of these groups among the Cymru the other five as I understand were the Demetae, Ordovices, Deceangli, Cornovii and Gangani. These are of course latinized versions of the names. I also am interested in your interactions with the Yokut and Mono concepts as we have some of these tribal affiliated individuals in our Church organization of which we are directors, the Native American Church of the Ghost Dancers. There are currently five Yokut rancherias that are federally recognized and three Eastern Momo(Owens Valley Paiute Bands) and five Western Mono (Mono Lake Paiute Bands). My husband and I are retired but donate our community services to two 501c3 organizations both of indigenous formats. Our church body by the way is a pre-Columbian traditional indigenous American organization, you can check us out if you like at www.ghostdancers.org , and may have a lot in common with original Cymraeg traditions. On another subject, the Goddess of the Waters in Wales especially the Dyfrdwy was Madron who may be related to Danu. What is your take on this? We have only recently begun researching our Welsh origins but the search continues.

NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD

I wish I could answer your questions, but I am not an expert on such matters. I do know that each group or clan (whatever the smallest stable social unit was called) had a druid, and one of the jobs of that druid was to memorize the genealogy/ancestry of each person in the tribe/group, so that unions between 2 people who were closely related wouldn't happen. Since unions generally arose from two members of neighboring groups, the druids involved had to take these lineages into account as well. (No wonder it took 20 years to become a druid, because this wasn't their only job!) So I expect that neighboring groups, being variously related to each other, would naturally form larger clans/tribes. So I am looking at the situation from the bottom up, but here is a good overview from the top down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_tribes#Great_Britain There were larger family groups, as can be seen on the maps. My Welsh ancestors were likely Silures, and I posted a story which mentions them in the Pagan and Druid Brothers and Sisters group here. (As an aside, there is recent genetic evidence showing that the Basque people of Iberia are more closely related to the Welsh and the Irish than they are to the French and the Spanish. This lends support to the Irish (alleged) mythology that the Celts came to Ireland from Spain.)

As for the origins of the Celts, I wrote this little bit once about the Goddess Danu for another site:

"Danu is the name of one of the great Goddesses in the ancient world She is a Hindu primordial goddess, where the word Danu describes the primeval waters which this deity embodies. In Celtic spirituality Danu is the mother goddess of the Tuatha De Danaan (the people, tribe or nation of Danu). The river Danube and at least three other European rivers (Dniestr, Dniepr and Don) were named by the Celts in her honor. All Celtic tribes honored Danu as well as other forms of the Goddess. The connection of Danu to the Hindus and the Celts speaks to their common ancestry.

"According to Irish legend, the Celts came to Ireland from Spain (this branch was called the Milesians, or sons of Mil). When the Celts landed on Ireland, the Tuatha kings feared that the Milesians were invaders, and killed their leader, sending the rest back to Spain. The Milesians returned to Ireland, and the Tuatha and the Milesians fought for control of the country, with the Celts being the eventual victors, in no small part due to the power of the Celt druid Amergin, who cast powerful lays (sung spells) to assist the avenging Celts."

Of course the first artifacts discovered by archeologists which represent a true Celtic culture came from Austria, and then from Switzerland, so technically, up to the time that the first signs of an established Celtic culture can be determined, these peoples are referred to as proto-Celts.

Finally, I live in an area which was primarily Yokut land, but much of my contact with the local natives from which I started becoming aware of the spiritual overlap was due to two sources: the local Mono people (related to Northern Paiute and Shoshone) and a Lakota elder.

I FIND THAT MOST FASCINATING. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. DID THE CELTS OF IWERDEEN OR CYMRU HAVE CLANS WHICH OCCUR AS SUB-DIVISIONS IN TRIBES. FREQUENTLY, AN INDIVIDUAL FROM A CLAN OF ONE TRIBE WOULD RITUALLY BE AS ATTACHED TO SOMEONE FROM THAT CLAN EVEN THOUGH HE/SHE MIGHT BE FROM ANOTHER TRIBE. ALSO, THE HISTORIA REGUM BRITTANIAE AND THE BRUT Y BRENHINEDD DESCRIBES THE ORIGIN OF THE CYMRU AS COMING FROM BRAN OF TROY WHICH OF COURSE IS IN ANATOLIA. THE SCOTICHRONICON CONTENDS THAT THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME GAELIC IS DERIVED FROM GAYTHELOS WHO STEMS FROM THE ANCIENT SEA KINGS OF THE MINOAN ERA IN THE AEGEAN, POSSIBLY THE ANCIENT HYKSOS. HE WAS REPUTED TO HAVE MARRIED PHAROAH AKHNATON'S DAUGHTER, SCOTA, AND ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES I THE WESTERN ISLANDS. BY THE WAY, WHAT TRIBAL AFFILIATIONS ARE YOUR ASSOCIATES FROM THE FIRST NATIONS?

NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD

In my researches, I found some stuff you might find of interest. I wrote a little booklet on the Celts, and this is part of it:

The Celts were not patriarchal. Robert Graves has traced their ogham script back to Anatolia, and relates the original Celtic people to the remains of the neolithic matriarchies of the Near East. Since ancient Anatolia (now Turkey) was once called Galatia, and branches of the Celts were called Galateans, or Gauls, this connection makes sense. [btw, the Galatians in Turkey were the first Celts to be Christianized, as evidenced by Paul's letter to them in the New Testament.]

The Roman historian Tacitus wrote of the Celts: "Their wives are to every man the most sacred witness to his bravery. Tradition says that wavering armies have been rallied by women... they believe that the sex has a certain prescience, and they do not despise their counsels nor make light of their opinions."

The Celts did not believe in capital punishment. Their tribal councils were attended and often presided over by women, and their inheritance of property and also kingship was matrilineal. Their male leaders were elected, and they had a reputation for democratic practices. As the Celts moved into new areas, they assimilated much of the native Neolithic culture. Ancient pre-Celtic influences survived liberally among Celticized people in Ireland, Wales, Brittany and the Basque country.

In Celtic law and custom, women were relatively free and powerful. They enjoyed greater economic, social, and sexual autonomy than women in modern day Britain, France or America. The early Celtic Christian church was suspect to the Roman Catholic orthodoxy precisely because it was pro-woman -- women celebrated mass. Women priests, called conhospitae, administered the sacramental wine while the male priests distributed the wafers. St. Patrick and Roman Christianity finally ended Druidic worship in Ireland, but the Irish church retained much of its pagan mysticism. Wales and Ireland, even in medieval times, preserved Celtic language, art, and literature, including the visionary ollave and bardic tradition of the Goddess with its sacred tree-alphabet.

The tuath (tribe) was the basic political unit in Ireland, owning the land communally. Cattle, not land, was the basis of wealth and the medium of exchange. Women also owned herds. The ruler of the tuath was commonly a man, but the queen was entitled to one-third of all war booty. There were many famous queen warriors, like the British Queen Boudicca in 61 BC. Powerful legendary women, like Queen Maeve of Connaught, were undoubtedly based on real people.

Celtic women owned their own property and were free to choose their mates, or husbands. In marriage, women didnt enter legally into the mans family, but retained independent status and property. Desiring divorce, the woman simply took back her belongings and dowry. Marriage was not a religious ceremony, and there was no concept of adultery. There were even annual marriages, entered into by both women and men, in which both parties agreed to be bonded for one year; at the end of each year the bond was mutually renewed, or abolished. Polyandry was practiced by some tribes; children belonged to the tuath. Legal contracts were made by the wife independently of her mate, and women were often the economic heads of families, with daughters inheriting equally with sons. Celtic heroes were named after their mothers -- and heroism was not confined to men. When upper-status Celts officially mated, she gave him a fine horse and a sword -- and he gave her a fine horse and a sword. The mutual exchange of nobility was the ceremonial band.

This earth ordered harmony is frequently reflected in the social structure as a matrilineal clan system. The Choctaws originally had a matrilineally directed social structure based upon a clan oriented system. This is reflected in the kinship terms of the Choctaw language. For example, the word for mother is ishki but this could also refer to your mother's female relatives (those of her clan). Your biological father was your inki also referring to his bothers but your mother's brother was your amoshi and was responsible for your upbringing as being of the same matrilineal clan as yourself. This is reflective in the respect for the earth that was considered as a nurturing maternal principal and the conduit thereto was a nature or animal spiritual principal that watched over your particular clan. I understand that the Cymru were also originally a matrilineal society but were acculturated into a male hierarchical nuclear family orientation not unlike most acculturated American Indian and First Nations peoples currently.

Fascinating. In my druid studies, I have had occasion to converse with some local First Nations people, and have found numerous similarities between druidry and Native American spirituality... which only makes sense, when one considers that most peoples who live close to the earth would come to understand a lot of the same principles.

AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW BY NOW MY HUSBAND AND I ARE OF CHOCTAW AND WELSH HERITAGE. WE HAVE JUST BEGUN EXPLORING OUR WELSH ROOTS AND HAVE FOUND MANY SIMILARITIES WITH OUR CHOCTAW ANCESTRAL HERITAGE. CHOCTAWS ARE NOT KNOWN WELL NOR SPOKEN OF IN THE USA. MANY MOONS AGO THERE WAS A CHOCTAW KING, AND A CHOCTAW EMPIRE. THE CHOCTAWS ALSO COME FROM THY BOSOM OF THY SEA, AND ARE DEEPLY ROOTED TO THE PASCAGOULA MERMAID. BEFORE I MOVE FURTHER, I WISH TO SAY I AM TRULY HONORED TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH MY HEART OF SKY BROTHERS AND SISTERS,

1) THE WELSH ARE AN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE PRESERVING THEIR NATIVE HERITAGE AND LANGUAGE; THE CHOCTAW ARE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS OF THE GULF COAST AND MISSISSIPPI BASIN PRESERVING THEIR CULTURE AND TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE.

2)THE WELSH SOUGHT ALLIANCE WITH THE FRENCH AGAINST THE ENGLISH INCURSIONS DURING THE ERA OF OWAIN GWYNEDD; THE CHOCTAW FOUGHT WITH THE FRENCH AGAINST THE ENGLISH DURING THE FRENCH AND INDIAN WAR.

3) THE WELSH KING BENDIGEIDFRAN GAVE HIS SISTER BRANWEN TO THE IRISH AS A GIFT OFFERING WHO WAS DISRESPECTED; THE CHOCTAWS GAVE THEIR SMALL ALLOTMENT MONIES TO HELP THE IRISH DURING THE IRISH POTATO FAMINE WHO WERE SUBSEQUENTLY THE PRIMARY IMMIGRANTS THAT DISINHERITED THE CHOCTAWS OF INDIAN TERRITORY A GENERATION LATER.

3) THE BRYTHONIC PEOPLE BUILT CAIRNS AND HENGES; THE CHOCTAWS BUILT MOUNDS AND MEDICINE WHEELS.

4) THE CYMRU ALIGNED THEIR SACRED STRUCTURES TO THE STARS; THE CHOCTAWS BROUGHT THE HEAVENS DOWN.

5) THE CWN ANNWN GUARDED THE GATEWAY TO ANNWN; THE CHOCTAW SACRED WHITE DOG, OFI TOHBI, GUARDED THE GATEWAY TO OFI TOHBI HASIMBISH, THE MILKY WAY GALAXY OF THE NIGHT TIME SKY.

6) THE CYMRU RESPECTED THE NATURE DEITIES AND DIVINITIES; THE CHOCTAWS RESPECTED ALL LIFE ON EARTH MOTHER.

7) THE CYMRU BELIEVED IN A GATEWAY TO THE OTHER WORLD CALLED ANNWN AT SPECIAL SACRED SITES; THE CHOCTAW BELIEVED IN A CORRIDOR TO THE HYPER-DIMENSIONAL REALM CALLED ONNA AT THE SACRED MOUND CENTERS.

8) THE BRYTHONIC PEOPLE HAVE BURIAL MOUNDS AND ELABORATE FUNERARY RITES INVOLVING EXCARNATION; THE CHOCTAWS DO TOO.

9) THE CYMRU HAVE THE BELIEF IN Y TYLWTH TEG; THE CHOCTAW BELIEVE IN THE KOWI ANUKASHA, THE LITTLE PEOPLE OF THE FOREST.

THESE ARE ONLY A FEW OF THE SIMILARITIES TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION BUT IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT OUR WELSH ANCESTORS CHOSE TO EMIGRATE AND INTERACT AND INTERMARRY WITH THE CHOCTAWS, THE PEOPLE OF THE MISSISSIPPI BASIN AND MOBILE BAY WHERE MADOC AP OWAIN GWYNEDD FIRST CAME ASHORE. AS AN PICTORIAL EXAMPLE OF THESE SIMILARITIES I HAVE INCLUDED A PHOTO OF GOP CAIRN IN FLINTSHIRE WALES AND NANIH WAIYA ON THE PEARL RIVER IN MISSISSIPPI, WHICH IS REVERED BY THE CHOCTAWS AS OUR PLACE OF EMERGENCE.