Madoc International Research Association

02/14/16 05:43:37PM

Madoc International Research Association

Posted by gaabi on January 20, 2009 at 1:49pm in Madoc

This site doesn't look finished, there's a forum but annoyingly no documentation is posted there.

Replies to This Discussion


Reply by Neil Perry on April 18, 2010 at 4:50am

Hi I agree the site is not finished Mira (Madoc International Research Society) has just renewed the fee on the website and hopefuly we will have a lot more on it plus a discussion forum in the very near future

Reply by Neil Perry on April 18, 2010 at 5:47am

I'm secretary of MIRA, our President is Professor Bernard Knight MD, BCh, MRCP, FRCPath, DMJ(Path), FHKCPath, FFFMRCP, FRSM(Hon), MD(Hon), DM(Hon), DSc(Hon), PhD(Hon), LLD(Hon) and Barrister of Gray's Inn, London and he has received the CBE from the Queen,as you can see a very learned man.He has written many books but only one on Madoc some 30 years ago.We have researched as much as we are able to find concrete proof of Madoc's epic journey but so far haven't found any.I notice the title of this site as Richard Kimberley's firstly we don't have a Richard Kimberley, we do have an Howard Kimberley as a member, Howard has his own site . We are now attempting to look up the genealogy links between us and America hoping to discover some connection pre-Colombian

Reply by Kathryn Pritchard Gibson on June 22, 2010 at 8:18am

Please could you change the name Richard Kimberley to Howard R. J. Kimberley.
Howard's web site is and he can be contacted by email

History Channel US have recently made a Documentary 'Who Really Discovered America?'

Part of this tells the story of Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd. It will be screened starting on Tuesday 22nd June 2010.

The story of Madoc ab Owain sailing across the Atlantic from the coast of north Wales in the latter half of the twelfth century has entered folk myth, and there are many later accretions. For instance, Madoc was NOT born in Dolwyddelan Castle; it was built by his nephew Llywelyn Fawr decades later.
What is certain is that the voyage was certainly possible at that time as there was a great tradition of boat building and seamanship along the west coast of Britain.

Reply by gaabi on June 22, 2010 at 12:15pm

Thank you very much for posting this information.

I just removed the name "Richard Kimberley" as Richard Kimberley is totally wrong and apparently this isn't Howard Kimberley's site in the first place, correct? Can't remember where I got the "Richard Kimberley" originally, maybe I got that link from some other site.

Can you tell us what MIRA has found so far, even if it's just oral history or inconclusive? Can you tell us about MIRA itself?

Reply by Kathryn Pritchard Gibson on June 22, 2010 at 1:13pm

I dont personally know what recent information the group MIRA have found. I am not a member but I do know that their motives are genuine and that Professor Bernard Knight is scrupulous in presenting the findings.

I also know that Howard Kimberley has been researching into Madoc for over 20 years, and that he has been involved in the recent History Channel project as an advisor. It is Howard Kimberley's personal research that several others have copied and pasted and are using as their own without crediting him for that fact. Howard genuinely aims to try to find the truth behind the legend of Madoc, and NOT try to invent fictions and jump on the band wagon (as some are clearly doing) to gain financial reward for himself in the process.

The History Channel documentary might in itself open more doors and bring in additional sources of information. It is a fascinating subject.

Reply by gaabi on June 23, 2010 at 12:27pm

Sorry, I was trying to address that to Neil Perry, as he said he was the secretary and I somehow addressed it to you!

I looked at Howard Kimberley's site and it looks very good! There's a page, "evidence" that gives information and sources and is excellently and academically written, he describes John Dee's contributions dispassionately, not worshipfully, which I very much liked.

I hadn't heard there was a History Channel production, is this something that's already aired? Sorry for asking, I'm googling and I can't find anything on it. Do you know anything else about it? I'd love to see that.

Reply by Kathryn Pritchard Gibson on June 23, 2010 at 1:31pm

The History Channel Documentary "Who Really Discovered America" went out for the first time on June 22nd. Haven't seen it myself yet, but understand that a copy is on its way to Wales. (Expect that the Producers will have tweaked the bare bones of the story to produce something more sensational.) The story of Madoc's voyage is only one part. What it will show is the early communication links by sea which so often gets overlooked. 

Reply by BEE RICHARDS on April 28, 2012 at 10:43am

I wonder who is jumping on the Madoc bandwagon in order to gain monetary advantage.  There is plenty of PUBLIC evidence out there on Madoc;

Reply by John Charles Davies on April 29, 2012 at 7:40am

Sadly there are several individuals who claim to be 'historians' who have simply jumped on what they see as a potentially lucrative bandwagon and tried to make a name for themselves by using the Madoc story for their own ends.  At the opposite end of the scale there are individuals such as Bernard Knight, Howard Kimberley and Kathryn Pritchard Gibson who have sifted through the European prime source evidence for this story in a mediculous, methodical manner, shared their findings freely, and deseve full credit for their efforts.  Others who have not followed  their scholarly, painstaking approach  have  added fictions to fictions and set genuine research back in the process. The Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd story surfaced in the Tudur period when Elizabethan England particularly needed to make a claim to the Americas. There is NO evidence that ithe story existed before that time.

Reply by BEE RICHARDS on April 29, 2012 at 9:35am

There are many people who have researched this subject, in a scholarly and academic fashion.  It is not only a select few who have done this but many people have contributed people like Zella Armstrong, in modern times who wrote a definitive book on the probability that Madoc left Wales.  I have studied the currents eg., the gulf stream, the shipping of the time and coupled with (allegedly) the background of seamanship of the individual it is possible that he got there.  I have visited some of the sites in America where allegedly Madoc and his people are supposed to have settled.  It is quite a possibility.  There is also the school of thought who say that the stone forts, inscribed stones and so on are of prehistoric origin, who knows.

I did leave a powerpoint on the site, and unfortunately some of the slides were omitted, there is one which shows the site just opposite to Dolwyddelan cast of the (alleged) home of Madoc.

Reply by John Charles Davies on April 29, 2012 at 12:10pm

Zella Armstrong's book 'Who Discovered America? the amazing story of Madoc' was published in 1950. Zella's European sources are all Elizabethan and onwards. Nothing whatsoever before that time.These original Elizabethan sources have recently been scrutinised in depth and it has become clear that there is nothing whatsoever to substantiate the story. Inventions grew on inventions from the time that John Dee started the ball rolling in the heady days of Elizabethan Empire building and expansionism, with a specific purpose in mind.  Anyone who has looked into the Madoc story in depth can only conclude that there is not one single shred of European documentary or other evidence prior to the sixteenth century. To claim otherwise sets the genuine study of history back and unfortunately creates a false platform. (Modern scholarship has also proved that the 'Madoc was born at Dolwyddelan' story is also a fiction.)