HEART OF SKY SISTER
FASCINATING INFO ON THE LEGEND OF APOLLO AND HIS SISTER ARTEMIS,I LOOK FORWARD TO SHARING MANY LEGENDS AND HISTORY'S WELL KEPT SECRETS WITH YOU ALONG THIS JOURNEY
YN YR YSBRYD O DAWNSWYR YSBRYD
I and my husband would like to determine if there is any interest among any of the Americymru members appertaining to developing a standard or set of criteria for recognition of Y Cymru or the Welsh people as an indigenous people. Although we are just beginning to explore our Welsh heritage we noticed that no such procedure exists although it would appear from our limited research that it should. The reasons are as follows:
1) The Welsh originate historically from a Brythonic or pre-Brythonic people from pre-Roman times which may go back millenia and are arguably the progenitors of the indigenous peoples of the British Isles.
2) The Welsh language and culture has attempted to keep its integrity intact although currently Welsh has been declared as an endangered language by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
3) Without a formal procedure for acknowledgement it disallows the Cymru from addressing their indigenous peoples circumstance pursuant to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples which affects their rights under various national and international legal standards. This puts the Welsh throughout the world at a decided disadvantage unlike other indigenous peoples of western European origin such as the Basque in Northern Spain and Southern France or the Sami in the Scandinavian regions who have developed such a standard and are entitled to such recognition.
4) This status for an individual so recognized as Welsh is apart from their nationality or legal citizenship. For example, a person of United States citizenship by virtue of being born in the United States can be acknowledged by the government of Canada as an indigenous person of Canada and issued a Certificate of Indian Status by the Canadian government or a person of Mexican nationality may be issued a Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood from the United States, Department of the Interior by virtue of having rights to enrollment in a federally recognized Indian tribe within the jurisdiction of the United States.
5) Upon completion of the standard or criteria having been developed a petition could be submitted to Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru and to the United Nations ECOSOC for acknowledgement. A separate organization specifically addressing the cultural, linguistic and ideological factors and rights of the Welsh people might be necessitated to perfect this at this stage.
We have only recently become a part of your web site and would like your advice on whether this would be an appropriate topic to be addressed on this site.
GAYNOR DIOLCH FOR THE PHOTO. AMONG THE CHOCTAWS THERE IS AN ONION CLAN CALLED HATON FALAYA IKSA AND IS PART OF THE TRIBAL DIVISION KNOWN AS THE AHE VPAT OR POTATO EATERS AS THEY WERE PRINCIPALLY VEGETARIANS AND AGRONOMISTS. BY THE WAY WHAT IS YOUR OPINION THAT LLUNDAIN ON THE TEMYS FROM THE BRUT Y BRENHINEDD MAY REFER TO LUDLOW ON THE TEME RATHER THAN LONDON ON THE THAMES?
NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD
I believe that my husband and I apparently descend through the Deceangli or Teigengl tribe although we may have some Ordovices intrusions.
That is great information, diolch for sharing this with me. However, there is a difference as I understand between the P-Gaelic which comprises the Welsh, Cornish and Breton French and possibly the Channel Islands and the Q-Gaelic which comprises the Irish, Scottish and Manx. The P-Gaelic may in fact be related to the Basque and possibly Pictish, however, there is currently not enough information regarding the pictish language to determine this. However, P-Gaelic although currently classified as a Gaelic language may be a language isolate like Basque and possibly not Indo-european; there appears to be some controversy on this issue. Indeed the Silures would be constituted as a tribal group from my perspective as there were principally six of these groups among the Cymru the other five as I understand were the Demetae, Ordovices, Deceangli, Cornovii and Gangani. These are of course latinized versions of the names. I also am interested in your interactions with the Yokut and Mono concepts as we have some of these tribal affiliated individuals in our Church organization of which we are directors, the Native American Church of the Ghost Dancers. There are currently five Yokut rancherias that are federally recognized and three Eastern Momo(Owens Valley Paiute Bands) and five Western Mono (Mono Lake Paiute Bands). My husband and I are retired but donate our community services to two 501c3 organizations both of indigenous formats. Our church body by the way is a pre-Columbian traditional indigenous American organization, you can check us out if you like at www.ghostdancers.org , and may have a lot in common with original Cymraeg traditions. On another subject, the Goddess of the Waters in Wales especially the Dyfrdwy was Madron who may be related to Danu. What is your take on this? We have only recently begun researching our Welsh origins but the search continues.
NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD
I FIND THAT MOST FASCINATING. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. DID THE CELTS OF IWERDEEN OR CYMRU HAVE CLANS WHICH OCCUR AS SUB-DIVISIONS IN TRIBES. FREQUENTLY, AN INDIVIDUAL FROM A CLAN OF ONE TRIBE WOULD RITUALLY BE AS ATTACHED TO SOMEONE FROM THAT CLAN EVEN THOUGH HE/SHE MIGHT BE FROM ANOTHER TRIBE. ALSO, THE HISTORIA REGUM BRITTANIAE AND THE BRUT Y BRENHINEDD DESCRIBES THE ORIGIN OF THE CYMRU AS COMING FROM BRAN OF TROY WHICH OF COURSE IS IN ANATOLIA. THE SCOTICHRONICON CONTENDS THAT THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME GAELIC IS DERIVED FROM GAYTHELOS WHO STEMS FROM THE ANCIENT SEA KINGS OF THE MINOAN ERA IN THE AEGEAN, POSSIBLY THE ANCIENT HYKSOS. HE WAS REPUTED TO HAVE MARRIED PHAROAH AKHNATON'S DAUGHTER, SCOTA, AND ESTABLISHED THEMSELVES I THE WESTERN ISLANDS. BY THE WAY, WHAT TRIBAL AFFILIATIONS ARE YOUR ASSOCIATES FROM THE FIRST NATIONS?
NI YW'R DAWNSWYR YSBRYD
This earth ordered harmony is frequently reflected in the social structure as a matrilineal clan system. The Choctaws originally had a matrilineally directed social structure based upon a clan oriented system. This is reflected in the kinship terms of the Choctaw language. For example, the word for mother is ishki but this could also refer to your mother's female relatives (those of her clan). Your biological father was your inki also referring to his bothers but your mother's brother was your amoshi and was responsible for your upbringing as being of the same matrilineal clan as yourself. This is reflective in the respect for the earth that was considered as a nurturing maternal principal and the conduit thereto was a nature or animal spiritual principal that watched over your particular clan. I understand that the Cymru were also originally a matrilineal society but were acculturated into a male hierarchical nuclear family orientation not unlike most acculturated American Indian and First Nations peoples currently.
AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW BY NOW MY HUSBAND AND I ARE OF CHOCTAW AND WELSH HERITAGE. WE HAVE JUST BEGUN EXPLORING OUR WELSH ROOTS AND HAVE FOUND MANY SIMILARITIES WITH OUR CHOCTAW ANCESTRAL HERITAGE. CHOCTAWS ARE NOT KNOWN WELL NOR SPOKEN OF IN THE USA. MANY MOONS AGO THERE WAS A CHOCTAW KING, AND A CHOCTAW EMPIRE. THE CHOCTAWS ALSO COME FROM THY BOSOM OF THY SEA, AND ARE DEEPLY ROOTED TO THE PASCAGOULA MERMAID. BEFORE I MOVE FURTHER, I WISH TO SAY I AM TRULY HONORED TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH MY HEART OF SKY BROTHERS AND SISTERS,
1) THE WELSH ARE AN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE PRESERVING THEIR NATIVE HERITAGE AND LANGUAGE; THE CHOCTAW ARE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS OF THE GULF COAST AND MISSISSIPPI BASIN PRESERVING THEIR CULTURE AND TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE.
2)THE WELSH SOUGHT ALLIANCE WITH THE FRENCH AGAINST THE ENGLISH INCURSIONS DURING THE ERA OF OWAIN GWYNEDD; THE CHOCTAW FOUGHT WITH THE FRENCH AGAINST THE ENGLISH DURING THE FRENCH AND INDIAN WAR.
3) THE WELSH KING BENDIGEIDFRAN GAVE HIS SISTER BRANWEN TO THE IRISH AS A GIFT OFFERING WHO WAS DISRESPECTED; THE CHOCTAWS GAVE THEIR SMALL ALLOTMENT MONIES TO HELP THE IRISH DURING THE IRISH POTATO FAMINE WHO WERE SUBSEQUENTLY THE PRIMARY IMMIGRANTS THAT DISINHERITED THE CHOCTAWS OF INDIAN TERRITORY A GENERATION LATER.
3) THE BRYTHONIC PEOPLE BUILT CAIRNS AND HENGES; THE CHOCTAWS BUILT MOUNDS AND MEDICINE WHEELS.
4) THE CYMRU ALIGNED THEIR SACRED STRUCTURES TO THE STARS; THE CHOCTAWS BROUGHT THE HEAVENS DOWN.
5) THE CWN ANNWN GUARDED THE GATEWAY TO ANNWN; THE CHOCTAW SACRED WHITE DOG, OFI TOHBI, GUARDED THE GATEWAY TO OFI TOHBI HASIMBISH, THE MILKY WAY GALAXY OF THE NIGHT TIME SKY.
6) THE CYMRU RESPECTED THE NATURE DEITIES AND DIVINITIES; THE CHOCTAWS RESPECTED ALL LIFE ON EARTH MOTHER.
7) THE CYMRU BELIEVED IN A GATEWAY TO THE OTHER WORLD CALLED ANNWN AT SPECIAL SACRED SITES; THE CHOCTAW BELIEVED IN A CORRIDOR TO THE HYPER-DIMENSIONAL REALM CALLED ONNA AT THE SACRED MOUND CENTERS.
8) THE BRYTHONIC PEOPLE HAVE BURIAL MOUNDS AND ELABORATE FUNERARY RITES INVOLVING EXCARNATION; THE CHOCTAWS DO TOO.
9) THE CYMRU HAVE THE BELIEF IN Y TYLWTH TEG; THE CHOCTAW BELIEVE IN THE KOWI ANUKASHA, THE LITTLE PEOPLE OF THE FOREST.
THESE ARE ONLY A FEW OF THE SIMILARITIES TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION BUT IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT OUR WELSH ANCESTORS CHOSE TO EMIGRATE AND INTERACT AND INTERMARRY WITH THE CHOCTAWS, THE PEOPLE OF THE MISSISSIPPI BASIN AND MOBILE BAY WHERE MADOC AP OWAIN GWYNEDD FIRST CAME ASHORE. AS AN PICTORIAL EXAMPLE OF THESE SIMILARITIES I HAVE INCLUDED A PHOTO OF GOP CAIRN IN FLINTSHIRE WALES AND NANIH WAIYA ON THE PEARL RIVER IN MISSISSIPPI, WHICH IS REVERED BY THE CHOCTAWS AS OUR PLACE OF EMERGENCE.
MY HUSBAND AND I ARE BOTH FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED CHOCTAW INDIANS. WE HAVE EXPLORED THE ARGUMENTS REGARDING MADOC AP OWAIN GWYNEDD AND BELIEVE THAT HE MAY HAVE LANDED SOMEWHERE AROUND MOBILE BAY OR THE MISSISSIPPI DELTA WHICH WAS CONTROLLED BY THE PASCAGOULA FROM WHICH THE LEGEND OF THE OKA NA HOLLO AND THE PASCAGOULA MERMAID DESCENDS. WE ARE ALSO WELSH ON OUR EUROPEAN ANCESTRAL SIDE AND WERE WONDERING HOW TO OBTAIN LEGAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AS CYMRU AS WE ONLY CURRENTLY HAVE LEGAL STATUS AS CHOCTAW. WE ARE DIRECT DESCENDANTS FROM THE HOUSE OF ABERFFRAU AS CAN BE STRUCTURED THROUGH ANCESTRY.COM. WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS ARE NECESSARY OR THE PROCEDURE TO PERFECT THIS BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO EMBRACE OUR WELSH HERITAGE EQUALLY WITH OUR NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE. CAN ANYONE HELP OR ADVISE US?
