Old Group Comment Wall

Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 11, 2008 at 4:31pm

From the page:-"Here are some of my thoughts on how we can retain and enjoy our Welsh culture:..."

Excellent article from BethNesaf

Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 9, 2008 at 1:10pm


Plaid Cymru manifesto for 2008 council elections.

Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 9, 2008 at 10:02am

Historic day for Wales....first Welsh law for a thousand years:-


Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 8, 2008 at 6:55pm

Varying estimates of the success of the One Wales Agreement in its first year:-
Plaid leader hails coalition’s achievements

Gareth Williams Comment by Gareth Williams on July 5, 2008 at 2:45pm

Compulsory conscription only truly works well under an unifying threat. Its not cost effective in 'peacetime' whatever peacetime means cos there has only been one year since 1945 where a Brit soldier has not been killed.

Politicians sometimes spout off about the potential long term benefits of a poulance who have had a coupla years military discipline, I got mixed feelings on that. Real soldiering is so hard that you have to love it to do it without a drama. Like a lot of jobs if you love it it does not feel as burdening, like an extension of childhood cowboy n indian games, and Im not being flippant, its just that it suits some and not others

Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 3, 2008 at 3:42pm

In between discussing plans for a future corrupt Latin American style dictatorship ( see elsewhere in this group ) we have at least managed to sustain a reasonably serious level of debate in this thread ( by our standards anyway ). Job da everyone. In complete contrast to our usual tone of levity, jolly japes and jocularity, here is a serious article on the subject of a future independent Welsh military:- ARTICLE

Ceri Shaw Comment by Ceri Shaw on July 2, 2008 at 12:34pm

I'm no expert on military matters ( far from it ) so if anything I'm about to say is utterly absurd please tell me. It seems to me though, that any future Welsh army should be proportional in size to its population and to current peacetime manning levels in the BA. So...if the population of the UK is 60 million (approx) and Wales population is 3 million (approx), we should be responsible for about 5%. I dont have precise figures but I recall years ago reading that the British Army was approximately 100,000 strong ( 10 divisions?) in peacetime. I dont know if that figure has changed or even in what period it would have been accurate. But , supposing that it were accurate, that would mean Wales should have a standing army 5,000 strong ( leaving reservists out of the equation for the meanwhile ). In peacetime of course, this force would not have much to do, beyond being available to back up the police if the Cardiff City Soul Crew got seriously out of hand...lol. I realise that training and international policing duties in "troublespots" would also be a very significant factor. In the event of a "party", since its unlikely that Wales will invade anyone in the near future, it seems reasonable that this force should be under the command of the overall UK military ( subject to some Foreign Policy arrangement between Cardiff and Whitehall ). With regard to the office debate referred to by Gareth in an earlier post...I dont see the need for any other force . Assuming that Birmingham is up to date on its water bill payments we should be able to equip our own land forces. Presumably though we would need to pay something into the kitty to sustain the RAF and the British Navy. As with any scheme like this the devil is in the detail and the precise amount that we paid would be the subject of endless beaurocratic haggling. Maybe a discount on the aforementioned water bill would cover it:). All in all what I'm suggesting is that we should finance our own land forces and chip in ( a whip round in the pub...whatever ) to sustain the Navy and Air Force. OK so tell me....how ridiculous is that?

gaabi Comment by gaabi on July 2, 2008 at 8:56am

Does any other country or group of countries do that - pay into a common pot? Is there another model of this to look at?

And, Gareth, what do you think of mandatory military service? The UK doesn't have that, right? It's like ours, you sign up?

Gareth Williams Comment by Gareth Williams on July 2, 2008 at 5:52am

This has kicked off a heated debate in the office I share here and while we are supposed to be filling in recruits training booklets with tests they have passed, instead we are discusing politics on taxpayers time. So I'll have to stop and return to work soon. The objection I'm getting is that Wales would still need to pay into a UK defence pot for a greater UK army capable of enforcing foreign policy on the world scene and how could such a small nation afford both. Anyone fancy helping me on that score. I gotta admit its a good point. Bastard!

Gareth Williams Comment by Gareth Williams on July 2, 2008 at 5:25am

So in fact what you'd have is a lot of old boys like me, saves me from becoming a driving instructor in Llandudno!!!!! So its purely selfish all this quest for independence


Comment by Gareth Williams 1 day ago

Economically very viable within a world economy, militarily linked to UK defence forces. We'd still end up paying a lot of our money into the UK and Europe pot though but possibly much less than we are now. The downside is that we would obviouly be getting less back from London, but possibly just as much out of Brussels, depending on how much we go for the European thing. Active Welsh politics tends to be liberal, so I guess we'd be very similar to Ireland, but their Roman Conservatism swings them right in a lot of things. We are less incumbered by the religion thing, pretty non conformist. By nature we tend to be capitalistic in lots of ways, but socially minded with it. Rural Wales is immensely small business orientated.
From my own defence and military strategy viewpoint, someone asked a Plaid Cymru ardent independent republican the question 'so how many aircraft carriers would Wales need?' Which was a good one and it stopped her dead in her tracks.

The answer is of course none! Why would we? For purely coastal defence, contraband enforcment stuff, two or three small to medium sized craft with a section of 10 to 12 Marine type troops would suffice, like the US coastguard. If we committed to something big we'd have to jump on board a big ally's.

The Irish and Swiss Forces are an excellent cost effective template. Tailored to our needs and committments. The Irish were committed to Afghanistan when I was last there and they came under the Canadians. Token show, 20 guys if I recall rightly, providing communications and forward observation teams to the Canadian Brigade battle group.

Ireland were not in Iraq as far as I am aware. They decided that party was too hot to get into, I might be wrong here, and I'll check later on google.

But my point is this, hopefully, the Welsh people as a one would have greater say upon which parties to send her boys to (please dont berrate me for referring to these hideous things as 'parties', soldiers blackness and my perogative. etc etc)

Air mobility loaded towards heli force, no real need for fast jet capability unless we England starts up again on the Imperialist road!!!

Ground forces, mechanised (a dozen or so apc's with med range cannon capability) infantry with small to medium in'house artillery capability as its fire support. A hard core of three thousand or so regulars with at least ten to twelve thousand regular reservists, thats teeth and support arms included, air, sea and ground. Regulars would be geared to train reservists weekend exercises and two week battle camp.

No ban or anything silly on service in the greater UK forces, in fact encouraged.

You'd have a fairly aged regular hardcore then, but highly experienced, making the part time citizen army immensely well trained.

Steve Pruett Comment by Steve Pruett 1 day ago

Wales would need an economy that can sustain its people;does it have a strong enough one,and,can it's military sufficiently protect it,or is that not really an issue?

Lidia Ziolkowski Comment by Lidia Ziolkowski on July 1, 2008 at 5:29pm

Yep--I support it and Wales should be independant of the Crown! If Scotland can have their way and Parliament, so should Wales!


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